retirement after a 25-year career. >> e.j. dionne responds to that ridiculous remark. plus a fox news guest bursts the right wing bubble from the inside. and ohio state senator nina turner on what could be the smoking gun of evidence for the republican effort to suppress the minority vote. >> good to have you with us. thanks for watching. hope you had a great holiday. the white house is laying the ground work for the fiscal cliff. but it could be a raw deal for the middle class, uh-oh, here we go. university of delaware event with white house adviser david plouffe shows what hand the democrats look to be playing. plouffe is one of the top members of the inner circle.

so when asked how to stand up, people should listen to this guy. >> we want to engage in entitlement reform. medicare, medicaid, these are chief drivers of the deficit. there's other spending we have to cut. >> hold on a second. i think that we all know what the chief drivers of our deficit are and have been. our projected deficit has driven by the wars and the bush tax cuts. entitlement programs don't even compete with these costs. plouffe went on to pin the problem largely on republicans who are not flexible, but he also said this. >> where the big bottleneck is republicans in congress around revenue and how much and where

does it come from, democrats are going to have to step up and do some tough things. and the notion that somehow that these deficits and our debt are not a threat to our national security on our economic future is something i cannot disagree with more strongly. there are some commentators on the left that suggest that. that we shouldn't deal with that at all. >> voices on the left are not saying the deficit is not a problem for our future. progressives understand we need to deal with our debt, but progressives don't want to see the burden of deficit reduction put on the backs of the people who can least afford it. the president campaigned on this vision.

at least i think he did. but it also seems like the white house is still considering another grand bargain. >> i think what we need to do is let's go for the big deal. let's go for something that we can say for a 10, 20-year period, our country is on the right path. the only way that gets done is for republicans to step out and get mercilessly criticized and that means democrats are going to have to do tough things that they will get criticized by their left. >> if this sounds familiar, it should. in 2011 the president brokered a deal to avoid crashing through the debt ceiling. the deal was ultimately rejected by the republicans but we know it included cuts to entitlement programs. president obama agreed to squeeze $250 billion from medicare in the next ten years with $800 billion more in the decade after that. he was also willing to cut $1 10 billion from medicaid in the short-term. democrats make it sound like a deal like this could be worked out pretty soon. >> bring entitlement reform into the conversation.

social security, set aside, doesn't add to the deficit. medicare and medicaid, protect the integrity of the program but give it solvency for more years. >> what's the integrity of the program? we have a lot of questions about where this is going to end up. republicans are also giving off clues about an upcoming deal. several house and senate republicans are rejecting an antitax pledge of grover norquist. but rejecting the pledge comes with strings attached. >> i will violate the pledge, long story short, for the good of the country, only if democrats will do entitlement reform. >> get out the gun and hold it to our head. democrat and republican

lawmakers are giving the impression that a deal can be reached. as long as there are cuts to things that are near and dear to a lot of americans. medicare and medicaid. david plouffe's public comments give credence to that idea. senator bernie sanders has spoken on this program about the need to protect programs for the middle class. senator sanders released this statement to "the ed show" tonight. "what david plouffe has stated concerns me deeply. in the election and in poll after poll after poll at a time when the middle class is disappearing and the numb of people living in poverty is at an all-time high. the american people demanded that there be no benefit cuts to medicare, medicaid and social security for those who are doing well must be asked to play a significant role. here, here. i'm on board with that. the public agrees with senator sanders. i'm not the only one.

in the latest cnn poll, 56% of americans believe that taxes for the wealthy should be raised to help pay for programs such as medicare and medicaid. this is in line with exactly what president obama said on the campaign trail and in his first speech after winning reelection. the president said that we would not balance the budget on the backs of those struggling in our society. are those people being asked to bend a little bit despite the tremendous victory that liberals had in november? i think it was november 6th, wasn't it? not real long ago. so here we are setting some dangerous boundaries that liberals have to get inside of if we're going to have a deal and make the republicans happy. are you willing to give up medicare and medicaid, big cuts to make sure that the wealthiest can get away with the tax rates that they want? i'll tell you what, they just don't rest. get your cell phones out.

tonight's question, will democrats stand up for the middle class in fiscal live negotiations? text a for yes, b for no. we'll bring you the results later on in the show. joining me tonight peter defazio of oregon. how alarming do you think david plouffe's comments are? >> very concerned. it's like the election didn't happen. it's back to where the president was negotiating with republicans having a stronger hand threatening the full phase of the government and economic collapse. he won. he won big about talking about taxing the upper income people and not hitting the middle class

with more cuts and social security, medicare and medicaid. social security, not a penny to the deficit. medicare, he wants $250 million over a quarter of a year. that saves for medicare. and medicaid is more essential now than it's ever been and it's a key part of obama care. i don't know what mr. plouffe was talking about. i think he got the republican talking points mixed up with his. >> that was my first impression when i saw the videotape as well. the question comes up. what are you willing to accept in a deal when it comes to programs like medicare and medicaid? >> look, this december should be about revenues. then we can go on to have discussions about the long-term solvency and where medicare fits in and the changes coming by 2014 as we move ahead with obama care. but revenues have to come first. they should come first because we hold all the ace s. they don't have to worry about their pledge because they are voting to reduce taxes for working americans.

they just can't do anything about the millionaires and billionaires and the unearned income, which is going to go back to clinton-era rates. >> i was really surprised that david plouffe would bring up the idea of a grand bargain in the lame duck session. it's about revenue. this is about the legislation they put in place that's about to expire after it was extended in the last lame duck session in the congress two years ago. that was a two-for-one to take us to where we are now. it seems to me that there's a little too much wiggle room on the part of the white house to start talking about a grand bargain and chipping away at medicare and medicaid when you don't have to. do you read it that way? >> absolutely.

and remember, this congress is worse than the one coming in. we'll have a straight hand in the senate and the house is even going to be a little better with more democrats and 11 of the worst republicans lost their reelection. so it's ridiculous to me they should be talking about a bad grand bargain in december over the christmas holidays and the new year's when after january 1st we'll have an incredibly strong hand. to help reduce taxes on middle income and working families and do other rational things, we'll have a place for them at the table. >> why do i get this feeling that somebody in the white house has just started the bus, the one they will use to run over liberals to say you have to take this deal because we have to fix this thing. the bottom line here is that we

have not paid for iraq and afghanistan. and i realize that was on somebody else's watch, but the bar tab is there now. if it's about revenue and the republicans reject, where does that leave the negotiating hand for the democrats in the future? >> let's come back on january 3rd and let's talk about what we're going to do because everybody will be paying clinton-era rates then. that would create $4 trillion of deficit reduction. that's probably a little too much out of revenues over the short-term so let's go back to child tax credit and some middle income tax relief and that, but let's keep a substantial portion of the revenue. then we don't have to talk about stupid across the board cuts and we can do more targeted cuts and bolster those that need bolstering. one thing, no one is talking about one-third of the deficit is due to high unemployment. we should be talking about investment to put americans back

to work and that takes care of a third of the deficit. a grand bargain, revenues, putting people back to work, then we'll talk about cuts. >> that's a profound point. we're supposed to go into this grand bargain because we went through a recession and the tax base was low because a lot of people were unemployed and we had to invest in the economy to grow it back up to where we got it now? i think there's some fundamentals here in place that the republicans just seem to push right aside and say you got to go to entitlements. if this country goes to entitlements and makes make changes t will be as if they won the election and democrats didn't. appreciate your time. remember to answer tonight's question. share your thoughts on twitter. we want to know what you think. coming up, the publicity tour to cut entitlements instead of their own welfare. e.j. dionne will join me. stay with us. a lot coming up.

coming up, corporate ceos want the middle class to bare the burden for deficit reduction. i'll talk to e.j. dionne next. fox news can't handle the truth when a journalist calls out the network for hyping the benghazi attack. he got cut off. and democrats are beating republicans at their own game when it comes to super pacs. we'll look at how they are already gearing up for 2014 with richard wolffe. you can share your thoughts with us on facebook and twitter using #edshow. we're coming right back. ♪ it's t to make someone happy ♪ when you give a child a toy, it has to work. ♪ make just one someone happy and when it's a toys for tots child, well, what could be more important? so this year, every hasbro toy donated to toys for tots will be powered by duracell. happy holidays. duracell with duralock. trusted everywhere.

welcome back to "the ed show."

thanks for watching tonight. a powerful group of ceos are giving advice on how to solve the deficit problem. they suggest cutting entitlements but say nothing about their own corporate welfare. here's lloyd blankfein taking aim at entitlements. >> you have to do something to lower people's expectations and what people think they are going to get because they are not going to get it. social security wasn't devised to be a system that supported you for a 30-year retirement after a 25-year career. so there will be certain things that the retirement age has to be changed, benefits have been to be affect, inflation adjustments have to be revised. but in general, entitlements have to be slowed down and contained. >> who does a 25-year career? i wish i could have signed up for that program. time for a reality check here. the average worker receives social security benefits for 16 years.

not 30 years. right now social security has a 2.7 trillion surplus and will be solvent through 2033 even if no changes are made. social security has nothing to do with our deficit and debt problems in this country. it's a separate fund. the ceo of goldman sachs didn't have a problem with bailouts his company got in 2008. goldman sachs repaid the money and has made billions of dollars in profit since then. but their ceos want to cut retirement benefits for middle class americans. here's honey well ceo suggesting something very similar. >> it's going to have to be medicare and medicaid. you can't avoid the topic. especially with the baby boomer generation retiring. it's going to crush the system. >> it's going to crush us. it's interesting considering how honeywell did not pay any

corporate taxes between 2008 and 2010. in fact, it got $34 million in rebates from the government. these ceos also talk about the need for revenue. but of course, without specifics. >> in the long run, there has to be more revenue and the burden will be taken up by wealthier people. that's just logical. >> we collect $2.2 trillion, but we give away half of it. you need more revenue. >> the group calls itself the campaign to fix the debt. it includes boeing and general electric, which along with honeywell, will get big contracts. ed rendell is on the group's committee. the real issue is the position taken by these corporate ceos.

joining me is e.j. dionne, author of the book "our divided political heart." this looks like a publicity tour taking aim at earned benefits instead of corporate welfare. it's like these guys have the power to go out and command the camera and the exposure and to make their case that everybody else is the problem but their corporate welfare, how do you see it? >> one of the things that bothers me is when these guys talk about raising the retirement age, what do they have in mind? they have in mind people like us who talk and write for a living. i hope i'm talking to you for a long time. but they don't think about what this means for people who might work on their feet all day. i'd like to challenge these guys if they want to call for a later retirement age, let them go to work for a couple weeks in a coal mine or an orderly in a hospital.

the other thing is the lower income people have not experienced that big increase in longevity. so raising the retirement age that hits them both ways. i heard that the white house put this on the table in the boehner talks last year is now backing away from that. i hope that's true. but the broader story is, are they really willing to support rate increases on wealthy people? are they willing to support increases in capital gains taxes? some people like warren buffett are willing to do that. it seems to me that's the price

of admissions. if the only thing they mean when they say deficit reduction is cutting entitlements. it's about cutting entitlements. >> the same guys at the trough for a bailout are now experts on what we ought to do with entitlement programs in this country. i find that amazing. then mr. blankfein throws a scenario. people don't have 25-year careers. they have 40-year careers. and construction people when they get in their early 50s and worked for 30 years, their bodies are broken down. >> exactly. >> what are they supposed to do? hang around for another 15 until medicaid shows up? they are paying lip service. it's romney 2.0. that's all it is. so what should liberals in this country be prepared to accept at this point as you see it? >> i really think that we should go back to the clinton rates, which are still lower than they should be. that's where we ought to start. if people want to talk about tax reform, let them get specific. because there are certain forms

of so-called tax reform that could hammer the middle class. do we want to get rid of the mortgage reduction to hit middle class people? we can't do that. >> that won't happen because the real estate lobby is too strong. and i wish the country would stop talking about the mortgage deduction. it isn't going to happen. there's enough people in washington that are going to make sure. it's a good talking point to scare the hell out of middle-class families, but they are not protecting them. the companies that are getting huge defense contracts are now experts on what we ought to do with the budget. and they are there protecting their own backside. that's the only way i see it. they don't want to give up any revenue whatsoever. as for social security, its solvency is extended into 2033. do we have to do anything about that right now?

do we need to raise the cap? >> no. and i think any move to put social security into this deal is going to hemorrhage a lot of support. so i think that's a nonstarter. the defense budget has to be part of this too. some of these rich guys are willing to put defense on the table. good for them. some may not be so wild about that. and if defense isn't part of the deal, then again, it's not a serious deal. >> and i have to point out, these are the big business leaders that are getting interviewed talking about the insecurity in the economy. i don't know. the early reports is that black friday was pretty good. the weekend was strong and cyber monday ain't bad either. so the fear talk doesn't seem to be playing on the consumer. e.j. dionne, great to have you with us. john mccain changes his tune on susan rice. how does this guy have any

credibility left whatsoever? michael tomasky will weigh in next. republicans are getting real. we'll have the new revelations about their bid to block the vote. and what it means in the next election. stay tuned. we're on point. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] it started long ago.

the joy of giving something everything you've got. it takes passion. and it's not letting up anytime soon. if you're eligible for medicare, you might know it only covers about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. call now and find out about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement plans, they help pay some of the difference. and could save you in out-of-pocket medical costs. you'll be able to visit any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients. plus, there are no networks, and you never need a referral to see a specialist. so don't wait. call now to request a free decision guide to help you understand medicare. and which aarp medicare supplement plan might work best for you. there's a range to choose from, depending on your needs and your budget.

and they all travel with you -- anywhere in the country. best of all, you'll be joining the millions who have already enrolled in the only medicare supplement insurance plans endorsed by aarp, an organization serving the needs of people 50 and over for generations. ♪ remember, all medicare supplement insurance plans help cover some of what medicare doesn't pay. and could save you in out-of-pocket medical costs. you'll be able to choose any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients. and you never need referrals. so call now to request a free decision guide and learn more. after all, when you're going the distance, it's nice to have the experience and commitment to go along with you. keep dreaming. keep doing. go long.

welcome back to "the ed show." john mccain would do everything

in his power to keep susan rice from becoming secretary of state if nominated. mccain can claimed he would block not just rice but anyone the president nominated. yet over the weekend, it must have been the turkey. mccain seemed to have a change of heart. >> she could conceivable get your vote for secretary of state. >> i think she deserves the ability and the opportunity to explain herself and her position, just as he said. >> mccain has given up on blaming susan rice for the administration's response for the attacks on the consulate in benghazi. tomorrow rice along with acting cia director will meet with mccain, lindsey graham on capitol hill. now that mccain is open to the idea of hearings from rice, he's alleging a white house coverup on the matter, a narrative already being pushed on fox news.

fox has devoted countless hours of air time to the benghazi story booking guests to pedal the conspiracy theories. but today something rare happened. fox news invited journalist thomas ricks to share his thoughts about the whole thing. he reports the truth for a living. so needless to say his interview was cut short. >> senator john mccain said he would block any attempt to nominate susan rice to become secretary of state. she's currently the u.n. ambassador. he seems to be backing away from that. what do you make of that? >> i think that benghazi generally was hyped by this network especially and now that the campaign is over, he's backing off a little bit. they are not going to stop susan rice from being secretary of state. >> when you have four people dead including the u.s. ambassador, how do you call that hype? >> how many security contractors died in iraq? do you know? >> i don't.

>> no. nobody does because nobody cared. we know that several hundred died, but there was never an official count done of security contractors in iraq. so when i see this focus on what was essentially a small fire fight, i have covered a lot of fire fights. it's impossible to figure out what happens in them sometimes. and second, i think that the emphasis on benghazi has been political partly because fox was operating as a wing of the republican party. >> all right. tom ricks, thank you for joining us today. >> let's turn to michael tomasky. that was one for the archives. your latest column is on mccain's attacks on susan rice. it's very pointed. these two stories go together because i think clearly john mccain has bought into the propaganda that fox was pedaling out there. how do you see it? >> that's exactly the right thing to see, ed. mccain made it clear in his

statements he was going to make this a showdown between him and susan rice. he was going to say, i, john mccain, have the moral authority, i john mccain, have the credibility to block susan rice if i want her to be blocked, and by god i'm going to do it. then yesterday, he switched gears. he back pedalled at warp speed. >> is this just another briefing for three senators that have taken issue with her performance? >> i think it's a savvy political move by rice to say that -- to understand that, you know, she does have to answer mccain's concerns because he still is, to some people, not to me, but to some people, he's still john mccain with a lot of authority. so he has to go see him. but i think she's going to come out of this meeting looking fine. i think mccain is going to have a press conference where he's

going to say she answered his questions to his satisfaction and i think he's going to send the signal tomorrow afternoon that she's okay. >> maybe they will compare academic records. you write that mccain should have zero credibility on susan rice and benghazi. why does the washington establishment always seem to turn to mccain for, let's see what the godfather says here. when does this guy become irrelevant? >> ed, you know, he has been respected for a long time for his war service, for what happened to him, and for his early senate career when he was genuinely a senator who worked across party lines, worked on campaign finance, did things to anger his own party, did things to compromise with the other party, took legislating seriously. he did buy a lot of credibility

through those actions, but those are ancient history now. ever since 2000 when he lost to george bush. he was very mad about that loss. but he became, at that point, for whatever reason, a very, very loyal right wing republican and then especially after 2008 when he lost to obama and i think he took that very personally, i think he still takes it personally. then a primary from the right in 2010 and he became a tea party guy. this transformation of john mccain has been a very sad and difficult thing to watch. but there's a certain element of the washington establishment that still wants to hold on to that 1990s mccain and wants to pretend that he's still that guy. >> i think he's got to do a movie with clint eastwood. michael tomasky, thank you very much. there's a lot coming up in the next half hour.

why is it you couldn't extend early voting? >> the right thing happened. >> florida republicans come clean on minority voter suppression. state senator nina turner responds to a new bomb shell report. democrats didn't ask for the super pac fight, but they plan to win it. >> there's a lot of money involved here and democrats need to come in off the sidelines and get engaged if they haven't. >> we'll tell you about the new democratic plan to outgun republican super pacs. and why is this nfl mascot shaving the head of an indianapolis colts cheerleader? it's a great story. we'll tell you about it, ahead.

we are back. two more republicans are coming clean about voter suppression tactics in the state of florida. apparently this is exactly what the republicans feared. they cut early voting hours. as a result, people waited six or seven hours to cast a ballot.

now "post" were hoping these folks would go home and basically stay away. consultant wayne birch says he knew targeting democrats was the goal. "in 2008 when we started seeing the increase of turnout and the turnout operations that the democrats were doing in early voting, it certainly sent a chill down our spines." he tells us tonight they weren't targeting any specific bloc of voters. another republican consultant says organizers were intent on beating back democratic turnout in early voting after 2008. on the night of the election, florida's own former governor accused republicans of trying to block the vote. >> the reality here is you have people trying to suppress the

vote in florida and across the country. they feel like they have to rig the game to win the game. >> if you want to rig the game, these long voting lines are a smaller part of a much bigger strategy. here's the voter suppression checklist. first issue voter purge lists. florida tried it. the department of justice stepped in. second, shorten the dead line for voter registration. a federal judge overturned the restriction. and third, cut back early voting times to scare voters away from the polls. republicans in pennsylvania, ohio tried similar tactics. civil rights groups now want the justice department to investigate. there's no investigations so far. we asked why not. the republican strategies didn't work this time, but believe me, folks, there's evidence there will be another election and they will be right back at it. joining us tonight senator nina turner. good to have you with us tonight.

this really is proof positive, this is the smoking gun. exactly what they were up to. what's the game plan to defeat it. >> absolutely, ed. the voting advocates knew this. i'm having a grandma moment right now. you can put truth in the river five days after a lie but truth is going to catch up. truth has caught up with the republicans tonight. the game plan is this. the fed's need to step in. they have further proven in florida why we do need section 5 of the act to stay intact here and the fact that the supreme court is going to take that up, progressives should be outraged at the efforts of the gop to try to suppress the vote. and the only party that's standing up for voting rights in this country are the democrats. and we need some republicans to come on to the righteous side and stand up to their colleagues. >> what about that?

couldn't the democrats start introducing a bunch of laws on a state level that would be anti-voter suppression laws and force the republicans to legislatively take a stand on it? >> absolutely. we should definitely do that and continue to unite with the voting groups. we're not going to sit by and let them to continue to push this kind of stuff. what happened in 2010 cannot happen in 2014. we have midterm elections in congress but we have general assemblies where folks have to re-up to the voters. we need to make sure that every voter understands very clearly that folks who try to suppress the vote should not be in office. it's a mow strom of foolishness and the people cannot allow them to stand. >> they do. which brings me to the next

question. are you going to run for secretary of state in the state of ohio? >> you know i'm seriously considering that. and i plan to make an announcement in january. the folks of this state need a secretary of state and ohio is ground zero, as we found out in 2012. i'm calling on not just the justice department, but all on the federal level. we need their help on state levels to make sure that folks' votes are not suppressed. there's an election every single year. when it takes teamwork to make the dream work, i'm talking about local, state and federal levels. we make the whole. the republicans have proven if they can't win the white house, they will try to suppress the vote on the state level. we're not going to let it stand. we're going to continue to fight. >> nina turner from ohio, great to have you with us. coming up, things keep getting worse for the new york jets as a fan favorite calls it quits. you can't lose this guy, can you?

i'll tell you why tim tebow was involved. plus some indianapolis colts cheerleaders made a big sacrifice for cancer research. we'll bring you a heartwarming story. stay with us.

we love hearing from our viewers on facebook and twitter. many are responding to an article about walmart's attempt to down play protests. sue says, she doesn't like walmart because of the way they treat their workers and run all the mom and pop stores out. and he hopes the workers strike at walmart gives a pay cut to the walton family. we need more made in america stuff any way. keep sharing your thoughts. coming up, one of the new york jets biggest supporters is calling it quits. but it's not because of the team's losing record. we'll have the details. stay with us. we're right back.

can it get worse? just when you thought things couldn't get any worse for the jets, their unofficial mascot is hanging up the helmet. fireman ed is the gang green super fan that has led the crowd since 1986. he says he's quitting because some of the jets fans just can't behave at the stadium. after ed chose to wore a mark sanchez jersey, fans began heckling him. they thought he was on the jets payroll, which is not true. things hit rock bottom during the jets crushing loss 49-19 loss to the patriots on thanksgiving. he said in an article, i decided to leave thursday because the confrontations with other jets fans have become more common, even though most jets fans are fantastic.

fireman ed went on to say he's not quitting because the jets are in a rough patch and he will continue to be a die hard jets fan. a few colts cheerleaders are in the spotlight for a more positive reason. the two colts cheerleaders had their heads shaved in front of 60,000 fans at the colts game on sunday. they did it to raise money for the cancer research after their head coach chuck pagano was diagnosed with leukemia back in september. the effort to bring awareness to leukemia research raised over $22,000 and the hair was donated for locks for love. if you want to make a donation to leukemia research, visit colts.com/chuckstrong. tonight in our survey, will democrats stand up for the middle class? 74% say yes, 26% say no. coming up, democrats are on the

offensive and gearing up for 2014. richard wolffe explain when is we come back. stay with us.

.

in the big finish tonight, will rogers said i'm not a member of an organized party, i'm a democrat. but it's looking like 2012 just might be the year that the democrats really get their act together. after the 2008 election, president obama passed the stimulus bill, the health care reform and did it largely on his own.

his campaign was criticized for failing to harness the potential power of his army of supporters. tea party activists across the country rallied behind their candidates and took back the house in 2010. we know the old story. this year democrats have learned their lesson and are doing things quite differently. jim messina says obama for america intends to keep supporters engaged in the political process using the system built for obama's reelection effort to advocate for policy goals through e-mail updates, rallies and social media. one month after the election, democrats are already working on 2014 and they are looking to use the republicans own weapon against them. that would be big money. politico reported that nancy post, chuck schumer and top aids spoke at a secret meeting of major democratic donors and

officials from liberal outside groups. the groups are courting in an effort to pass the legislative agenda and plan to help democrats keep the senate and take back the house in 2014. i'm joined tonight by political analyst richard wolffe, vice president of msnbc.com. what do you make of this? is this talk or is this really organized effort to make a difference in the midterms, to get really prepared for the midterms. >> it is an organized effort. they have learned their lessons. when they let this stuff die. the critical question on whether it will make a difference is what they ask. it's one thing to say we have to put out e-mails and keep you more engaged. the last time they said call your member of congress. that doesn't work great. they are used to being physically active in the real world. the challenge is to try to do

something that's real. get them to share, get them to make their videos. that's powerful. but you have to get them to do something real. that's actually where the tea party made a difference. people gathered in one place. they had a rally. but there's also something more they want. they want to do real work in their community, whether it's painting schools or cleaning up neighborhoods or working to get food. that's a real world at the end of this. >> why aren't the republicans any good at this? it seems the democrats are so much more contemporary when it comes to getting the job done. >> i think there's something about the sharing dynamic and community that fits the kind of people who are driven by progressive causes. they tend to be younger. there's a relationship between younger voters and their activity online. but the third piece of it, i think, is going to be hard for republicans. when president obama was there and you could try to deny him a

second term. that was their organizing principle. that is gone. it's going is to be harder this time around. especially as the economy gets better. >> it's going to take more than grass roots. it's great they are organizing and talking about it, but president obama had an innate ability to raise big money. can the democrats duplicate that? i mean there's going to be somebody coming along and inspiring people to the next level to keep this thing going. can it have an effect in the midterms? >> there's a difference between what president obama was doing in the end, and these big donors coming together in what mitt romney called the darkrooms. what you've got to have here is some of this big money sitting it out for 2016. they have to be focused on 2014 and try to win back especially the house seats. that's where the real difference is going to come.

if the president gets another honeymoon, it's going to be over by february. does he get a second? >> the finances of the country is very important. but demographically, immigration reform walks right into the democratic tent. this would be a big -- the right move, actually. politically the right move, but also important for the country. >> you're seeing a lot of movement from republicans on immigration. will it be far enough? you'll get a couple things here. that's where the pressure of the grass roots and the ad campaign that they may be funding. push for something bigger. republicans are already moving. now is the time to go bigger and not smaller on immigration. >> richard wolffe, great to have you with us tonight, thanks so much. that's "the ed show." i'm ed shultz. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. >> good evening.

>> we need a quarterback in minnesota. i don't know where the quarterback was in green bay. they are playing the wrong quarterback in san francisco. you in new england, you have no quarterback problems. >> if i could cleave something off tom brady to help you out, you might, but you'd have to bribe me really bad. thank you to you at home for staying with us. we need to start with tom breaking news from washington, d.c. nbc news is reporting tonight that the new cia director, the one after david petraeus resigned recently, the acting director is going to be accompanying the u.n. ambassador susan rice tomorrow at a meeting that she is taking with republican senators. now this is important because it would appear to be laying the groundwork for susan rice's potential nomination for the position of secretary of state. susan rice to succeed the current secretary of state